tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post2835840546350881460..comments2023-10-30T08:44:15.656+00:00Comments on De Rebus Antiquis Et Novis: January 11 in Russian historyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-51259914657833672912008-01-15T12:50:00.000+00:002008-01-15T12:50:00.000+00:00DmitriMy thanks go to Andy Young of Siberian Light...Dmitri<BR/><BR/>My thanks go to Andy Young of Siberian Light (for informing me of this post on the Russian Civil War) and yourself for discussing this interesting topic.<BR/><BR/>Please keep up the great work.Michael Averkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603725363455929103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-76282959808120981412008-01-15T09:41:00.000+00:002008-01-15T09:41:00.000+00:00Thank you, Mike! I checked it up and found out tha...Thank you, Mike! I checked it up and found out that I was wrong. I fixed the text.Dimitrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307446029353729137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-35229231211209609792008-01-14T12:45:00.000+00:002008-01-14T12:45:00.000+00:00Dmitri:The Provisional Government recognized Polis...Dmitri:<BR/><BR/>The Provisional Government recognized Polish independence. At issue for the Constituent Assembly was Poland's boundaries. The then White leader Kolchak definitively reconfirms this point. Denikin and Wrangel never went against that view. Denikin sought a Polish-White alliance which Pilsudski refused. I have Lehovich's very well documented book in my home library, along with several other books on the subject. I will gladly provide citations upon request. This subject interest me. I have seen a good share of incorrect comments made about the subject.<BR/><BR/>The stumbling block in White-Polish relations was the matter of Poland's eastward borders. On that note, it is somewhat fascinating to see how Petlura is now seen as a hero by many present day Galician based Ukrainian nationalists. Petlura was willing to sellout Galicia to Pilsudski in exchange for Polish support of a Ukrainian state with Petlura as head. During the Russian Civil War, the Galician Ukrainians did not get along so well with Petlura. A study of that period indicates that the Galician Ukrainians might have been on comparatively better terms with Denikin. This might have been partly due to a somewhat shared ideology. The Galician Ukrainians and Denikin came from a politically conservative background which didn't particularly like Petlura's professed socialism and one time alliance with the Reds. For that matter, Pilsudski (at least for a time) was considered a socialist.<BR/><BR/>Denikin was born in Poland and sympathized with Polish independence. His mother was a practicing Polish Catholic and his father an observant Russian Orthodox Christian.Michael Averkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603725363455929103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-28825781001148869022008-01-14T10:04:00.000+00:002008-01-14T10:04:00.000+00:00Michael, thank you for the insightful comment. Cou...Michael, thank you for the insightful comment. Could you, please, tell me the source of the information that the Whites were ready to recognize the independence of Poland? Does Lehovich directly confirm it? Indeed, Denikin wrote something like "I fully recognize the right of Poland and Finland for self-determination", but, in my opinion, it was a personal opinion rather than the official stance of the Whites.<BR/><BR/>AFAIK, Denikin, Wrangel and other leaders of the White Guard were proponents of the idea of "non-predetermination". That is, the Whites fought only to restore the law and order and left all political questions to the Constituent Assembly which had to be held after the victory over bolshevism. The independence of Poland was recognized by the Provisional government, but it had to be confirmed by the Constituent Assembly.Dimitrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11307446029353729137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-21866254383080196732008-01-14T02:44:00.000+00:002008-01-14T02:44:00.000+00:00Very interesting! Keep up the great work. Molode...Very interesting! Keep up the great work. Molodets!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5316674702588134370.post-12462717936338945492008-01-12T00:07:00.000+00:002008-01-12T00:07:00.000+00:00Interesting piece. Note that Denikin and other Whi...Interesting piece. <BR/><BR/>Note that Denikin and other Whites weren't against an alliance with Poland. Pilsudski however preferred the Bolsheviks. The Whites were perfectly willing to recognize Polish independence. On the other hand, Pilsudski sought Polish "sea to sea" (Baltic to Black) boundaries, which the Whites wouldn't accept. Bolshevik Commander Tukachvsky is on record for saying that a White-Polish alliance might've led to a Bolshevik defeat. <BR/><BR/>There're several well documented books on the subject.<BR/><BR/>One of them is Dmitri Lehovich's "White Against Red" published in the 1970s by W.W. Norton.Michael Averkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06603725363455929103noreply@blogger.com